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Entry #23

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Backseat modding, clarified.

Posted by NEVR Jun. 6, 2009 @ 8:58 PM EDT

NEVR's guide to the backseat modding rule on the BBS v1.0.1
____________________
____________________

Questions are welcome from anybody, but additions / suggestions on how to make the explanation of the rule better should come only from BBS mods. I will keep adding to this over time so that it hopefully it explains as much of the rule as possible.

If you have been banned for backseat modding and still don't understand exactly why after reading this, post about it, providing some of the background info. I will check your ban history and try to give you an answer as best as I can.

I may also post this in the Forum Rules, Clarified thread as well at some point if I can be bothered to snip it down and re-structure it slightly.

A lot of users don't understand the backseat modding rule, and I can see their perspective; it seems ludicrous to ban a user for simply trying to help out, right? So I'm going to try to explain it from my own EXTENSIVE (lol) experience and wisdom.

First off, the backseat modding rule is under "the other rules" section. It's not a major offense, but you are risking a ban. This means that some mods will ban you for it, whereas others might just delete the post. Here's the rule as it's written in the BBS rules page:

- Backseat modding: pointing out what needs to be deleted, banned, locked or destroyed.

From this it makes things seem a little black and white, and I know that some users have been confused about being banned for backseat modding when they thought they were simply being helpful.

The tone of the post is very important; in my view of things, there's a line between a user who is trying to be helpful with good intentions, and a user who is being a bit of an elitist ass by trying to show another user that they know the site better, or something along those lines. If you're worried that your post runs the risk of getting you nailed for backseat modding, read it through before you hit the "Post" button, and try to read it as a scrutinising moderator and ask yourself: Could it be interpreted as condescending or rude in any way? If you think the answer is yes, then re-word it so that you seem as sincerely helpful as possible. There's nothing in the rules against being plain helpful, after all.

Three things we don't want that puts the backseat modding rule in its place:
- Users being dicks to other (often newer) users;
- Users giving out MISINFORMATION;
- Users developing superiority complexes or thinking it's their job to mod the BBS.

There are the really obvious backseat modding posts, like "I wish a mod would come along to lock this", or "You're going to be banned LOL!" Those types of posts will usually be deleted and maybe a small ban would be given to the user responsible depending on the context.

[ADDITION]
The other more obvious type of backseat modding is when one user points out that another user is breaking the rules in a thread. The user making the accusation may be trying to help, but doing it in the thread only provides ammo to derail the thread, so if you are concerned that a user is breaking the rules, PM an online mod and let them deal with it instead of taking matters into your own hands.
[/ADDITION]

There are, however, instances where it's a little more difficult to see where the backseat modding is actually occurring.

Examples of this are when one user tells another user how / where / what to post, especially if it's in an unhelpful or elitist manner. You don't necessarily have to say "this thread should be locked" in order to be guilty of backseat modding.
____________________

To help you all out, here's a quick list of tips to avoid backseat modding:

- Don't call users out in threads
It might seem like a user needs to be taken down a peg or two, but you're only making yourself look bad by getting drawn into it. PM an online mod and leave it at that.

- Be helpful, not condescending
The longer you're here, the more annoying it is when you see users who don't know the rules. In these instances, it's on YOU to be helpful to that user, but DON'T act like you're a moderator yourself. Point them in the right direction as opposed to TELLING them what to do.

- Don't quote / link to the rules
It might seem like you're trying to help, but this can very easily come off as smug or elitist. If you see someone breaking a rule, again, PM a mod as opposed to pointing it out in the thread itself.

- Don't tell mods how to do their jobs
Probably one of the easiest ways to get yourself banned for backseat modding is to actually tell the mods what they should or shouldn't be doing. We have a thread where you can express your opinions on how the mods are doing, but outside of that thread, just let us get on with it.

And finally, a tip that applies to EVERY rule on the BBS and not just this one...

- If in doubt, don't post
Fairly self-explanatory. If there's a hint of doubt in your mind that what you're about to post may not abide by the backseat modding rule, then don't hit that post button. If you have concerns about anything that you aren't sure if you should post on the BBS, we have the PM system and a list of mods who will help you out.

[ADDITION]
A few backseat modding-type posts that may get you banned:

- "inb4 lock"
- "Enjoy your ban"
- "Read the rules"
- "This is spam"
- "Isn't this against the rules?"

...And all variations thereof.
[/ADDITION]
____________________

Remember, backseat modding is ONLY a rule on the BBS. PMing a mod about something that you think needs looking at is absolutely fine, and you'll never get a BBS ban for contacting a mod about something you think is rulebreaking (even if it turns out to be legitimate in the end).

Updated: 07/09/09 10:38 PM Log in to comment! | Share this!

The People Have Spoken

42 Comments

Jun. 6, 2009 | 10:25 PM Malachy says:

here's something: backseat moderating only includes saying things on the BBS. PMing us, pointing us to something that needs to be looked at does not count as backseat moderating and will never get you banned.

Jun. 6, 2009 | 10:31 PM NEVR responds:

Indeed... I thought that would be obvious to people, but I'll make it plain in this little guide thing anyway just to avoid teh confusions. Cheers Mal.

Jun. 7, 2009 | 7:55 AM mwmike says:

Thanks for this. I could have really used something like this when I was quite new to the BBS.

Jun. 7, 2009 | 8:18 AM SuperMarioBrosS says:

Does every forum mod abide by what this post says or is this your policy when moderating "back seat modding" posts?

Either way, nice news post. You already looked at my ban history so you know how many times I was banned for back seat modding (accidentally).

Thanks for the info and thanks for the 5-day ban too.

Jun. 7, 2009 | 12:58 PM NEVR responds:

Every mod is slightly different, but for the most part we try to mod as similarly as possible. That's the reason I've provided the tips though, so that you can avoid backseat modding altogether in the first place.

Jun. 7, 2009 | 5:43 PM kidray76 says:

If I tell a user to suck my dick, is that allowed?

Also, if the user sucks my dick, is that allowed?

Nice post NEVR.

Also, everyone who posts after me can suck my dick.

Please don't ban man :)

Jun. 9, 2009 | 8:51 AM NEVR responds:

lol, I've missed your almost unhealthy obsession with penises. <3

Jun. 8, 2009 | 3:58 AM SpiffyMasta says:

This is great clarification. I learned pretty quick what would get me banned or not for this offense on my own, so I always try to be nice when pointing things out now.
As far as letting someone know they might get banned for saying or doing something on the forum, I tend to just pm them to let them know. I don't know if you should add that as a viable option or not.

Jun. 10, 2009 | 12:44 PM SuperMarioBrosS says:

I have another question.

Would mods ban for second-hand backsead modding?

Like if User A said 'You're going to be banned for that post' and User B said 'Backseat moderator' along with the rest of his/her post, will mods ban both User A & B or will they ban User A and leave User B alone?

Also, it seems like I have requested a very short ban. Extend my ban for 1 more day please?

Thank you for your time.

Jun. 10, 2009 | 2:19 PM NEVR responds:

Both users would be either be banned or have their posts deleted at the very least. Posting something like: "You're backseat modding, you're going to be banned for that" is also backseat modding.

Read the tips, they tell you NOT to ever call out users in a thread unless you want to risk getting banned. PM a mod if you see another user breaking the rules.

Jun. 10, 2009 | 7:09 PM gamerpeepinpa says:

Thanks for the clarification. Backseat modding was what I was most confused about of all the rules, since it didn't seem like it would do any harm just to tell a user where things are on the BBS.

Jun. 11, 2009 | 10:00 PM jmalouin7 says:

If a user makes a thread, even though there is a thread made for that topic, do we get banned for posting a link to the thread that was already made?

An example would be if someone made a new thread about stickam, and i left a link to the stickam thread that is already going.

Jun. 11, 2009 | 10:38 PM NEVR responds:

Good question.

This depends on the manner in which you link to the correct thread. If you're an ass about it and try to make the OP of the thread look like an idiot, or you insinuate that the thread should / will be locked or deleted, etc., then you're on thin ice.

Conversely, if you're nice about it and you're genuinely trying to be helpful by pointing out that there's a more established thread out there for the same purpose, then you'll probably be alright. I only say "probably" because whilst it's unlikely, it is POSSIBLE that a mod could misinterpret your helpful post as a little bit self-righteous or whatever. That, unfortunately, is an occupational hazard of the internet: tone is sometimes rather ambiguous and therefore open to interpretation.

That being the case, it's always best to try and make your tone as clear as possible (use smiley faces, etc etc)... but, as I've maintained throughout this clarification, IF IN DOUBT, DON'T POST.

Jun. 12, 2009 | 11:32 PM flashwarrior says:

i have a question; what if you make a kind of backseat mod liek statement like: you might want to post in these forums instead if it was like a video game topic in general or whatever, then I tried to add to the discussion in the threaD? Would that be seen a-ok?

Jun. 14, 2009 | 11:47 AM NEVR responds:

Depends really. If you backseat mod really obviously, then it doesn't matter that you try to mitigate it by adding conversation in afterwards. Honestly though, it doesn't make sense to do point a user to a different forum AND contribute to the existing thread.

Jun. 14, 2009 | 10:31 AM Zendra says:

Good work! :)

Jun. 14, 2009 | 11:47 AM NEVR responds:

Why thankyou fine sir ^_^

Jun. 15, 2009 | 8:49 PM idiot-buster says:

Thanks for doing this. Though this could have been much more helpfull along time ago. I must have been banned for this 4,5 or even 6 times >.<

Jun. 25, 2009 | 7:11 AM iscrulz says:

Don't say Enjoy your Vacation some mods might get what you mean. I was banned for it back in 03-05 it is to vague in my memory. BBR knew what I was talking about. I am going to check my ban history to see if I had backseat mod antics.

Jul. 1, 2009 | 10:16 AM BobbaQ says:

An absoulutely spiffing read I must say.

Jul. 1, 2009 | 12:04 PM VinnyXY says:

+1 comment

Jul. 2, 2009 | 1:01 PM SupraAddict says:

...Have I ever been banned for backseat modding?
Can you pm me my ban history, or is that against rules/regulations?

Jul. 3, 2009 | 2:43 PM NEVR responds:

I'm not sending any users their ban history; that information is solely there for mods and admins to view.

Jul. 3, 2009 | 2:25 PM MichaelHurst says:

Same thing as SupraAddict...Could you send me my ban history? Unless that is against the rules of course.

Jul. 3, 2009 | 2:43 PM NEVR responds:

See above

Jul. 3, 2009 | 4:31 PM zrb says:

You are totally right, we mods and elites must show those n00bs the rules.
</terribleattemptatmakingajoke>

Jul. 3, 2009 | 9:40 PM lawlmaster says:

Thanks,for your backseat moddingblog post, it really clarified things for me. But i must ask a simple question, say someone posts in the wrong forum(unknowingly) and you link them to the right forum(with an un assholeish sentence) would that be bannable?

Jul. 4, 2009 | 11:20 AM NEVR responds:

Nah, that's fine as long as you're being nice about it.

Jul. 4, 2009 | 9:34 AM sammontague says:

will u please tell me my ban history im pretty sure i been banned for backseet modding a few times

Jul. 4, 2009 | 11:21 AM NEVR responds:

See my response to SupraAddict.

...or, if you can't be bothered to scroll up a little, I'll paste it here for you:

"I'm not sending any users their ban history; that information is solely there for mods and admins to view."

Jul. 7, 2009 | 12:38 AM Sheizenhammer says:

Wait a second here.

"Don't quote / link to the rules."

Not only have I seen regulars do that and not get banned for it (they continued to post after it was obviously noticed by a mod), but the mod that locks the thead it's in may just quote the post linking to the rules with something like "Yeah, this" or "^^^^^" as their lock message.

It usually happens in things like "Hi, I'm new" threads and other obvious rule-breakers. I'm wondering if it makes any difference with regards to the backseat modding rule (if linking to the rules isn't allowed, why do some mods appear to encourage it by quoting the posts in question in their lock messages?).

Jul. 7, 2009 | 1:06 AM NEVR responds:

Did you notice that I put that under the "quick list of tips to help you avoid backseat modding"? I didn't say that if you do it you'll definitely be banned, I simply said that it's best to avoid doing it.

Read properly before commenting please.

Jul. 7, 2009 | 7:26 PM Zombie-Toaster says:

The fact that you have to write this for people to get it shows something severely lacking in the general NG population, probably intelligence.

Jul. 7, 2009 | 7:45 PM NEVR responds:

Well a lot of people don't understand the backseat modding rule... not sure why TBH, because I think it's fairly straightforward, but there you go.

Jul. 8, 2009 | 8:00 PM SeeInTheDark says:

But if someone directly asks a question about the rules, and you answer it, but you're not a mod, that's OK?

Jul. 8, 2009 | 10:32 PM NEVR responds:

There's nothing in the rules against answering questions.

Jul. 9, 2009 | 7:25 PM Viridis says:

Im constantly PMing Mods with threads that need to be modded. You're all useless. ;D

<3 much love <3

Jul. 10, 2009 | 8:50 PM WavyGravy says:

A very comprehensive guide, with none of the twist and turns. How's the summer treating man?

On a unrelated note, there is a real lack of pictures in your blogs ^hint^hint^ ;-)

Jul. 12, 2009 | 9:17 AM NEVR responds:

Summer is good apart from this silly phishing stuff going on :(

I'll try to get more pics, lol.

Jul. 12, 2009 | 7:28 AM DeathClockJR says:

Get wade to unban my fucking brother.

Jul. 15, 2009 | 8:46 AM DATERAPELOL says:

THEN WITH MY 30 DAY BAN.
SKULSTA SHOULDVE GOTTEN ONE TOO

[ADDITION]
A few backseat modding-type posts that may get you banned:

- "This is spam"
- "Isn't this against the rules?"

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1 082183

Jul. 20, 2009 | 4:19 AM Itsbroken2 says:

Cool story bro,
But really this is useful and I never used to PM a mod without worrying about a ban.
Much thanks.

Jul. 21, 2009 | 12:15 PM SupraAddict says:

To reply to your comment, I don't think mal shares the same notion. "Hacsev says:

You do realize you're the only moderator on this site that bans me, right?
Jul. 11, 2009 | 1:58 PM Malachy responds:

may 2008 (2 months prior to me being a moderator)
Please put effort into your threads before you make them. There's no shame in not making any if you don't have anything interesting to say.

June 2008 (1 month prior to me being a moderator)
Don't remake deleed threads and please put more effort into the threads yo do make.

november 2008. (Only ban I have given you prior to this one.)
Not only did you fail to actually read the whole thread (if you had, you would have noticed a review moderator already answered the question after another user answered the question) you also provided a completely bogus answer. Having your reviews deleted does not automatically mean you will get banned. http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/top ic/9956 71 ~Mal

July 2009. (Your current ban.)
overtly obvious +1 shitty posts/bumping threads in P-bot postings, yeah mods look there once in a while too. All useless +1 crap you've made in P-bot Postings in the last month have been deleted. ~Mal

You may want to keep your butthurt to the PM system from now on to avoid looking like an ass. ;)"

Also, I have another question about Backseat modding-If a person asks a question in a thread, and gets an answer he/she is satisfied with, yet it keeps getting bumped with more answers, can you point out that it should be locked, or are you better off just contacting a moderator such as yourself?

Jul. 22, 2009 | 5:54 AM NEVR responds:

You might want to explain what you mean with the whole "I don't think Mal shares the same notion" thing, because frankly I'm at a loss to understand what you're getting at there.

As for your question, it's better to contact a mod. Pointing out that a thread should be locked in the actual thread (even if it should be) is backseat modding. In fact, that's pretty much textbook backseat modding.

Jul. 22, 2009 | 8:00 AM SupraAddict says:

Yeah, I'm kicking myself right after I wrote my question; as for what I meant with mal,

http://malachy.newgrounds.com/news/po st/331407

If it's still up, you can find what I meant easily ;)

Jul. 22, 2009 | 10:15 AM NEVR responds:

lol, it would have been far easier if you'd actually mentioned that you were referring to a comment you left nearly 3 weeks ago, rather than making me have to guess / search for what you were talking about.

As far as that's concerned, if a mod wants to pull up a user's ban history to prove a point about something, that's their prerogative. I personally don't feel like starting a "send users their ban history" service.

Jul. 23, 2009 | 12:00 AM CuteAndFuzzy says:

i didnt read any of that but thats okay because im here to tell you that you are a good person and i hope all of your dreams come true :)

Jul. 23, 2009 | 12:28 AM NEVR responds:

Haha, thanks :)

Jul. 23, 2009 | 12:42 PM SupraAddict says:

Haha yeah sorry about that...
Anyway, Thanks for the help on Backseat modding.

Aug. 6, 2009 | 10:09 AM BobbaQ says:

Oh hi man, long time right? How's uni and stuff? I had to drop out as I failed the year again :(

Aug. 7, 2009 | 12:48 AM NEVR responds:

Oh, that sucks. Did you not like your course? It seems to me that the majority of people who don't pass their first year (I assume you're in your first year) fail because they don't like their course all that much.

Aug. 11, 2009 | 1:13 AM jakenator85 says:

Congrats on level 33!

Aug. 12, 2009 | 1:19 AM im12 says:

im12andwhatisthis?

Aug. 12, 2009 | 9:36 AM VinnyXY says:

Congratulations! You have recently reached lvl. 33! You should tell this at the level up lounge!

Aug. 16, 2009 | 1:14 PM Joshiwa says:

Stop being such a Nazi, geez.

How you doing?

Aug. 21, 2009 | 11:09 PM NEVR responds:

omg hi

I'm not so bad, lol. Not been around as much lately... real life calls. It's been good though -- new year of uni, new house, new girl. New new new.

Gotta try and get on AIM soon and shoot the breeze like the old times. Be good to catch up, sir.

Aug. 30, 2009 | 12:39 PM Twilight says:

Is there a newspost up somewhere that is just like this, only it's about spam?

I get a lot of complaints that my posts are generally spam and that I just +1 for the post count, and when I tell them I never get banned for my short posts they all say "so and so is gonna ban you soon".

My posts are all right, right? I mean they are mostly 1 liners but they all contribute to the topic.... Why waste a paragraph on padded jumbo when you can just say 5 words or less?

Sep. 4, 2009 | 6:21 PM peacefulsniper says:

eat my dick faggot. if you get banned for this then fuck you n ur shittyf site.

Sep. 6, 2009 | 9:12 PM blazer133 says:

As much as I wanted to read all of that, I just can't eyes hurt from all the reading i've done today. i'll just accept the ban and not do it again.

(my eyes hurt :'c)

Sep. 7, 2009 | 12:24 PM Show-R-Studios says:

Thanks for the info, I didnt even know about backseat modding lol, makes total sense tho!

Oct. 19, 2009 | 9:13 PM MegamanZero360 says:

I still, Really dont get the whole idea with backseat modding. I failed in going around these rules and still helping users. Like if someone makes a " Hi there, I am new" Thread, i usually say, " Welcome. But next time, please don't make introducing threads. It is in the rules" What is so bad about that?

Nov. 18, 2009 | 10:14 AM geterkikzkid says:

I usually avoid backseat modding by PMing the mods, but I feel like a snitch when I do it. I know I'm gonna sound like a prick when I say this but; I've been sorting out the mods reactions over PMs. I'm trying to figure out who is best to PM over certain situations. I know I'm a dick.

At 6/6/09 10:25 PM,Malachy wrote:
:here's something: backseat moderating only includes saying things on the BBS. PMing us, pointing us to something that needs to be looked at does not count as backseat moderating and will never get you banned.
Remember how you banned me when I did it. You banned me when I posted in the thread. That will get you banned.

"Remember, backseat modding is ONLY a rule on the BBS. PMing a mod about something that you think needs looking at is absolutely fine, and you'll never get a BBS ban for contacting a mod about something you think is rulebreaking (even if it turns out to be legitimate in the end)."

That's when I usually question the thread in a PM, then leave it up to the mod to determine it's destiny. (They are usually deleted)

All mods hate me. I'm an annoying prick. Sorry.
Don't you hate me?